Way back in 2004 Terminal Boredom "published" our first two issues, featuring interviews with Jay Reatard, Lili Z., The Ponys, The Fuse (remember them?) and Larry Hardy of In the Red Records. Jay and Lost Sounds were about to release their first record with ITR, Lili (and Jack) ended up releasing the next Volt record on ITR, The Fuse were already on the label and yes, The Ponys ended up in Larry's stable (!) as well. Over six years ago, and Larry was at the forefront of all things Termbo, where he still remains today and realistically was many years before TB launched. Twenty years of garage-punk dominance as of 2010, with what is probably the greatest catalog in the genre behind him, and still releasing many of the most invigorating and essential bands and records as we speak (listen to that new Tyvek LP and tell me I'm wrong). The man who helped bring us modern favorites like The Hunches (probably the best band of the past decade), Lamps, Cheap Time, critical favorites like Cheater Slicks, Bassholes, Country Teasers, Necessary Evils and even the biggest "stars" of the garage-rock "boom" like Jay Reatard, King Khan & BBQ, Black Lips and The Dirtbombs. Legends like Kim Salmon, Tim Kerr, Jeff Evans, Jon Spencer, Tav Falco, Andre Williams and Kid Congo have recorded under the In the Red logo alongside equally great obscurites like Johnny Hash, Dirty Lovers, Night Kings and many more. Just go and look at the ITR discography. It's common knowledge that ITR is one of the best labels of modern times (and all times), but when you take it all in at once and really think about how many monumental records he's had a hand in, it's simply mind-boggling. I would imagine many TB readers own almost the entire discography, which right now is a half-dozen or so releases away from #200. Almost unbelievable. Larry and his label have survived through trends both good and bad, outlasted all of his contemporaries and still shows no signs of slowing. And throughout it all he's remained one of the nicest guys in the game, a fact that anyone who has worked with him or even just bought records from him will attest to. Always willing to take time to answer whatever stupid questions I consistently bombard him with, I figured we should officially catch up with another interview for Termbo and talk about what's happened since TB #1. I'd like to personally say thanks for taking the time out of his hectic schedule to complete this interview and for helping to keep the heart of garage-punk beating.
TB: So, it's been almost six years since Todd interviewed you for TB last (2004). At that point I think what would be the last Lost Sounds record was just about to be released and obviously the landscape has changed quite a bit since then. How have operations changed for you and the label in that time? I think one could say that these past five plus years have been the most productive for In the Red and have seen you release some of the most diverse sounding stuff yet...
LH: Yeah, with each passing year my release schedule has gotten bigger and I've definitely been busier than ever before. Since Todd did that last interview my roster has grown and a lot of the bands I was working with then (Lost Sounds, Clone Defects, Hunches, ect) have disbanded. Also, in that time, the business has definitely changed. CD sales have fallen at a rapid rate but, thankfully, vinyl and download sales have risen to balance it out somewhat...at least in my case. Also, oddly, licensing music has become the major source of income for the label. I've made more money from the likes of Mitsubishi, Universal, Walmart, Airwalk and others than I have from actual record sales over the past few years. I know there are some who say this is some kind of a sell out but I say that's bullshit. I think it's pretty obvious that the records I've been releasing all these years haven't been commercially conceived. If some big company wants to give the Clone Defects a fat check to use their music to sell their product that's fine by me. Timmy Vulgar isn't making big bucks from record sales or concert ticket sales and I'm not making money from 'Shapes Of Venus' sales so this sort of thing is a win-win for us.
TB: That Morlocks 7" record came out in 1990 if my research is correct? So this year actually marks the twenty year anniversary of In the Red? Anything special planned?
LH: DAMN! Time flies. No, I have nothing special or celebratory planned. A local promoter (Mitchell Frank of Spaceland and The Echo) has been asking me about doing an ITR festival at one of his clubs. Perhaps I should make this the occasion.
Seriously, I hadn't even realized it had been that long. Fuck. That's going to keep me up tonight.
TB: How much longer do you foresee yourself doing the label for? You obviously don't seem to be losing steam at all after two decades...
LH: I ask myself this all the time. Surely I can't do it forever. I hope I have the good sense to know when it's starting to suck. It's weird because I thought a lot about not doing it anymore a decade ago. Nowadays, there are so many new bands that are making music that I'm excited about that I simply don't have the resources to do records with all the ones I'd like to. I can remember in the late Nineties feeling the exact opposite. I guess we'll have to wait and see. My health is much more likely to fail than my enthusiasm for rock music.
TB: Aside from the website-only 12" records, you've never really done any colored vinyl/special edition type collectorscum type variations of your releases. Any reason behind this? Do you feel that sort of thing is unecessary and/or frivolous?
LH: Funny you should ask this, I just did one such release with the Spits!
Normally I'm not that interested in things like this. I suppose I should be, judging from how quick these Spits LPs sold out. I've always been an obsessive record collecting type but, I've never really cared about colored vinyl, for some reason. I'll obsess over getting a picture sleeve for a record I care about but, I don't really care if the vinyl is blue, yellow or black.
TB: What are the guidelines for keeping ITR releases in print? Do the bands decide or do you just keep pressing as demand sees fit? Like, 'Ultraglide in Black' has been steadily available for almost ten years now, but stuff like the Teasers 2XLP or the first Horrors LP seemed to be one pressing and then vanished?
LH: I guess it's decided by record sales, Revolver (my beloved distributor of many years) and myself. There are certain releases that will remain staples of my catalog and kept in print as long as we can sell them - Dirtbombs 'Ultraglide in Black', Reigning Sound 'Time Bomb High School', Black Lips 'Let It Bloom', King Khan & BBQ and whatnot. Others don't get re-pressed if they stop selling or slow to the point where it's not worth pressing more. The bands you mention, Country Teasers and Horrors, are (more or less) defunct so their releases are out of print for now. That said, some of my personal favorite ITR releases I've ever done are no longer in print on vinyl.
TB: If you don't mind us asking, what's the usual deal you make with bands when you do a record with them? Do you actually do signed contracts and such these days, or make long-term deals or anything? Do you generally pay for recordings? Do you offer tour support/funds and such? Royalties?
LH: I prefer not to have contracts. My deals are usually hand shake deals, though there have been contracts with some. My deal is always a 50/50 profit split after costs are recouped. I almost always pay for the recordings. In some cases the band records themselves in a home studio. It's different scenarios for each project. Yes, especially lately, I'll help a band with tour support, if they need it. It's usually for European tours that financial help is needed, mainly airfare. It varies with each band.
TB: Is there a standard pressing size you do these days to begin with? How have the numbers differed from when you started to today?
LH: It depends on the artist. Usually Revolver announces a release and then tries to gauge what we should start with. These days we usually press at least 1500 LPs to start with unless it's a band we know will sell more. I definitely sell through more records than I did when I began which, I suppose, makes me an anomaly in the music biz.
TB: What is the best selling ITR release of all time?
LH: The Dirtbombs "Ultraglide In Black" is my all-time best seller. I'd have to check my statements to see the exact number but I know it cleared 20,000 sold. It was released well before the age of the download.
TB: A burning question for most Termbo readers is what is the status of the In The Red Archives project? Are you still working with Mike Sniper on this? I think you've said the Consumers repress and Homosexuals 2XLP are still happening, any time frame on that? Any other updates/releases you can tease us with?
LH: Yes, this is coming, though it's gone at a slower pace than originally planned. Yes, Mike Sniper is still involved. The problem is that with all my releases by contemporary artists and Mike doing Captured Tracks we've both been too busy to focus on it. I definitely hope to have the first two out before the year's end. The first one will be The Consumers "All My Friends Are Dead" re-mastered with expanded packaging. The Homosexuals will follow that.
TB: How does the licensing deal you have for the bands work? Is there some sort of agent or company you go through to get songs placed? Obviously the people at Misubishi aren't listening to Clone Defects themselves...
LH: There are a few people who do music placement for movies, TV and commercials that I'm in touch with who pitch my stuff when they can. So far I've had pretty amazing luck with this sort of thing. This is also how I met my girlfriend. She used to do music licensing. And believe it or not, I'm told whoever does the commercials for Mitsubishi does have good taste in music and was aware of the Clone Defects! They also used The Fall on one of their commercials.
TB: Is the label your full-time job these days? Are you still involved with Birdman and Sepia Tone?
LH: Yeah, In The Red is pretty much my full-time gig now. A few years ago I invested some money in my friend's (Terri Wahl of Red Aunts/Screws/etc.) restaurant, Auntie Em's Kitchen here in Eagle Rock, and that turned out really well but, apart from that, In The Red is my only job.
I stopped working with Birdman a few years ago. It was great being involved because the guy who owns Birdman, David Katznelson, is one of my best friends and it was really cool being involved in his projects. When Birdman started Dave was living here in Los Angeles but he eventually moved back to his hometown of San Francisco so it wasn't that practical for me to be working with Birdman with that much distance between us.
Sepia Tone has pretty much slowed to a halt. Sepia Tone was a label done by me, David from Birdman and Gary Held, the owner of Revolver USA. We all got to pick releases that we wanted to re-issue. David used to work as VP of A&R at Warner Brothers records so, through his connections, we were able to have access to titles that were in the WEA catalog. After a while we kind of ran out of things we wanted to re-issue so that label's gone kinda dormant.
TB: How involved is the exclusive deal you have with Revolver? Are they subsidizing any manufacturing costs and such? Do you play any other roles in Revolver operations aside from the label stuff?
LH: Yeah, Revolver does a lot of my manufacturing. It's worked out really well and I can't really imagine doing the label without them. They're the best. My only involvement with Revolver is via my label. I have no input with them on anything else.
TB: Are there any records that you turned down that you wish you could go back and release? Anything that you did release that might not have been such a good idea in retrospect?
LH: Yeah, I definitely passed on some things I wish I hadn't. I could've done the Clone Defects "Blood On Jupiter" but I didn't. That one still bugs me. I was offered the Compulsive Gamblers' "Crystal Gazing Luck Amazing", which I really wanted to do, but Long Gone John at Sympathy would've been pissed so I didn't do it. I regret that decision. I could've done something with the White Stripes - obviously that would've been a positive thing for me.
Luckily, there's not any releases I really regret. I only release bands I really like. That said, the very first two singles I did were pretty weak and I sort of regret those. I'd asked the Gories to do a single and they were going to be my first release. They took about a year to get me the recording and, in the interim I did two singles that were offered to me that weren't that great. One was a posthumous Morlocks recording. I'm a big fan of the Morlocks "Emerge" album but the single I did wasn't their finest moment. The other single was by a Seattle band called Kings Of Rock who had a single on Regal Select I really liked. They offered me a single and I accepted but what I got were cover versions of garage tunes that were fairly generic. I really wish I'd waited and the Gories were number one in my catalog.
TB: Speaking of Long Gone John...I'm reading the Eric Davidson book right now, and he talks about In the Red, Crypt, Sympathy and Estrus as being the big Nineties labels. Obviously you're the only one still kicking and steadily releasing current stuff and probably thriving moreso than you were then. How does it feel to be the last man standing? To what do you attribute your longevity compared to your contemporaries and surving the Nineties?
LH: I don't know how I managed to still be in business after all this time. Stubbornness, I guess. My passion for new music is as strong as ever - that helps. I don't know what Dave Crider at Estrus has been up to or what his reasons for slowing down are. I know Tim Warren got really tired of dealing with contemporary bands and some of the stuff that comes with working with them. I can totally understand - he'd been doing it a long time and he worked his ass off. He's gotten really into mastering and I think his heart is mostly in that and doing comps of older material, which he's obviously a genius at. Long Gone John has told me on more than one occasion that he's not all that interested in new music anymore. He's working on a line of toys, he collects original art and I think that excites him more than putting out records these days.
I think, despite what Eric's book says, back in the Nineties my label wasn't really a peer to these other labels. Mine was a much smaller label that didn't grow until later. I would think back then ITR would be more in a league with Bag Of Hammers or labels like that. I am flattered that Eric saw me in a league with those other labels, though.
TB: You and LGJ lived in the same city for many years and were working with the same bands quite a bit. Was there any sort of rivalry at all? Were you guys pals who hung out together or have a business relationship at all?
LH: Yeah, I've known John for a long time. Our relationship predates either of our labels existing. Watching him start Sympathy and watching it grow was definitely an inspiration for me to start my own. We've always been friends and we've never had any rivalries or issues with one another. Nothing major, anyway. He moved away to Olympia a few years ago but we still keep in touch.
TB: Is there any truth to the rumor you traded the Bassholes to Dead Canary Records for Demon's Claws? If so how did that deal get swung?
LH: No, that's not true. I'd never heard that before. It did just so happen that those two bands switched labels around the same time, I guess. That would be funny if labels could swap bands like baseball teams trade players.
TB: I heard that Bassholes/Demons Claws thing years ago, I forget where. Probably the Termboard...I just thought it was funny in a sports sense like you said...
LH: Yeah, if this were a possibility I would've been seeing who I had to trade to Soriano for the A-Frames a long time ago.
TB: How did the Bassholes end up leaving In the Red anyway?
LH: The last album I did with the Bassholes was "When My Blue Moon Turns Red Again". The concept was to do an extremely high fidelity recording, at least compared to their previous albums. I booked time in a really nice studio in Hollywood that, without David Katznelson getting me a deal through his Warners connections, I could have never afforded to do. I flew Don and Bim out during the summer since Don was a school teacher and could only take time off during the summer. They arrived with more than enough material for a double album. They got all the tracks and overdubs done but ran out of time before they could mix it. The plan was to get them back to LA to finish mixing the album, which we couldn't get done until the following summer. A year is a long time to let an album sit unfinished. By the time they came back to finish the album Don had already been working on another album that he seemed more excited about. I suspect he had grown tired of the concept of recording in a bigger studio. Anyway, to my surprise, Don told me that Matador records wanted the new album he was working on. I was happy for him that he scored a cool deal but it was a bummer to lose the Bassholes. Weirder still was that my last Bassholes album and the Matador album came out right around the same time. Not an ideal scenario.
I love the new Bassholes album on Columbus Discount Records. I think it's one of the best things Don's done. There's always the chance we'll do another record together someday.
TB: I've heard there's some big news coming on the Cheater Slicks front, a reissue of 'Don't Like You' and even a vinyl box set of 'Forgive Thee'? What can you tell us about this and what's the timetable?
LH: Yeah, I hope to get on 'Don't Like You' soon and do 'Forgive Thee' the following year. These will be part of the ITR Archives series. 'Don't Like You' will include the demos the band recorded prior to their sessions with Jon Spencer so it'll be a double LP. 'Forgive Thee' will be a three record set.
TB: Obviously Jay's passing was a huge heartbreak, and you talked about it at length already in other places so I'll try not to rehash too much. But, are there any releases planned from what was left of his recordings?
LH: Yeah, losing Jay was a massive bummer. I still miss him. Jeffrey Novak has a cassette of the two last songs Jay had written shortly before he passed away. He said they are simple and "crushing". Jay's manager, Adam Shore, plans to release them on a single for the members of the Shattered Records club. I'll be re-issuing the Lost Sounds back catalog and Goner will be reissuing the Reatards back catalog. As far as I know there isn't much, if any, unreleased recordings of Jay's. At one point he had loads of material recorded and stored on his hard drive but a power surge from an electrical storm caused him to lose everything he had. That was a tragedy that cost me the Angry Angles LP I was supposed to do.
TB: Where do you think Jay could have ended up in the future? He was obviously breaking into the upper echelons of the mainstream-indie thing. Could the masses have accepted a Jay Reatard? I think the pop sensibility and talent were there, maybe he would've had to repackage himself a bit more before he ended up on the cover of Entertainment Weekly or something...do you think he even aspired to that?
LH: I guess Jay had been telling Jeffrey Novak that he was wanting to start recording under his real name, Jimmy Lindsey. I think that would've been a good move. Once his star began to rise and he signed to Matador I realized that his name would be an obstacle as far as marketing goes. He definitely had the talent to take it to the next level but there's no telling how it all would've played out. I always felt certain that I'd end up doing records with him again in one capacity or another. We still talked all the time. He was pretty realistic about the music business and his place in it - sometimes to the point of self-deprecation. He once said to me that he and the Black Lips were "the Tad and Love Battery in a music scene that had no Nirvana".
TB: What was the deal with selling 'Blood Visions'? I imagine that was Jay's deal? Sort of weird how the timing worked out.
LH: Fat Possum offered Jay a REALLY large sum of money to buy the record out. I was bummed to lose it as I was pretty involved with that album from its inception. And, of course, it's a great record. That said, I totally understand Jay not turning down that much money. He bought a house outright with the money he got from Fat Possum. There's no way that record was going to ever earn that much more money had he kept it on my label. It was hard for me to understand why Fat Possum was willing to pay so much for a record that had already sold over 15,000 copies and had been out for over three years. I can only guess that they were betting on Jay's Matador album blowing up and they'd have a strong piece of his back catalog.
One big up side to this is that Jay's father inherited the house Jay bought with this money and he lives there now.
TB: I talked to James Arthur about this once a long time ago and I hope I'm remebering this right...but he said at some point after Mike Ball had died, there were still a bunch of unfinished Beguiled songs left that Mike and Steve had written. And James was doing nothing and was sort of in a daze after Fireworks self-destructed so you had him come out to LA to record the first Necessary Evils LP? Does this sound at all true? What was the story if not...
LH: Yeah, that's exactly right. James had been on tour with Fireworks when that band imploded. Fireworks had been on the road with the Cheater Slicks at the time. The Cheater Slicks were heading right back out on another US tour with the Red Aunts so James just got in their van and went on tour with them as a sort of vacation. While he was on this tour he played the Cheater Slicks a demo he had by Steve Pallow's then new band, the Black Panthers. When the Cheater Slicks came back through LA on this tour they were raving about this demo and insisted I check it out. I too was blown away by it and I got a hold of Steve. It turned out the band had already split up so, with a bit of urging from me, James decided to move out to LA and start a band with Steve that would do the songs of the Black Panthers. Some of these songs were songs Steve had written with Mike Ball. Steve and Mike recorded a bunch of stuff together - a lot of it was really experimental. They called their side project Sound Lab, I believe. I still have some of these recordings on cassette somewhere around here.
TB: In the previous interview you mentioned The Cramps as being sort of a life-changing band for you. I'm guessing you ended up becoming friends with Lux and Ivy along the years? How did you get introduced and how close were you with them? That must have been weird and awesome becoming friends with a band you admired in your youth...I seem to remember Jay or someone saying they were staying at your place sometime and Lux and Ivy showed up at the door and they were blown away...The Cramps meant a lot to me as well, and Lux's passing one of the few times I've really been upset about someone "famous" I never knew passing away.
LH: It's amazing to me how many people have said exactly what you say about Lux's passing being upsetting when you didn't know him personally. It makes me happy to know he had such a profound impact on so many. I'm still extremely bummed about losing him so suddenly and so prematurely.
I can't remember exactly when I met Lux and Ivy...sometime in the latter half of the Nineties. It may have been through the Demolition Doll Rods or Andre Williams. I know I got to know them a lot better when they fired Vengeance Records back up and took over their back catalog. I hooked them up with a mastering guy and Jimmy Hole, who does all my layout, to help them with artwork. It was (and still is) really weird and exciting getting to know people personally who were my heroes and who seemed way larger than life to me. There were many times they'd leave Jimmy's house (which is in my backyard) after working for hours on their art layout and Jimmy and I would look at one another and say, "that's never going to not be totally mind-blowing, hanging out with those two". I was initially really nervous about meeting them because you never want to find out that someone you really admire isn't very cool or not very nice. Thankfully, Lux and Ivy turned out to be even cooler than I'd imagined - two of the funniest, smartest, coolest people I've ever met.
TB: How did your relationship with Jimmy Hole begin? What are his "official" duties at In the Red?
LH: I met Jimmy through my ex-girlfriend, Terri. Both of them were working at Epitaph at the time. He's been doing all my art layout and my website for years now. He's my right hand man, for sure.
TB: Mike McHugh seems to have become sort if the "in-house" producer for In the Red...How did your relationship with Mike begin and when how did you first find/use him and The Distillery?
LH: I first met Mike in 1996. I had a friend, Chris Fahey, who had volunteered to record the first Necessary Evils album. Chris had just built a recording studio and gave us a deal to be one of the first to record in there. After several days of tracking the album it came time to mix it and, to everyone's horror, all the bottom end had disappeared. Chris couldn't figure out what went wrong but he said there was a guy next door with a recording studio who could probably help fix it. This person was Mike McHugh. Mike wound up being a total score. He helped repair the Evil's recording (as much as was possible) and wowed us with his arsenal of analog gear, crazy homemade fuzz boxes, homemade microphones that looked like lunch boxes and all-around nutty stuff. The guy was a bona-fide mad scientist. Still is. Mike is always coming up with really unorthodox recording ideas as far as recording techniques go. He's definitely, sonically, on the same page as most of my bands are.
TB: I like to think the Hunches are probably the best band of the past decade or so and their LPs are quite possibly the best records you've released in the "modern era". Can you tell us a bit about how you came to find and sign the them? Do you have a personal favorite record/song of theirs? Do you know what led to their break-up at all? "Exit Dreams" is an incredible swan song, but I really wish they could have continued on...
LH: I agree with you. The Hunches are one of my very favorite bands I've ever worked with and definitely one of the best bands of the last ten years, in my opinion. I met Chris and Hart from The Hunches when I was driving on a Cheater Slicks/Necessary Evils tour in 1997. We were in Eugene and the opening band was The Conmen - Chris and Hart's then band. They were 16 or 17 years old. Their band blew us away. I ran into them a couple of times after that and they'd always say they had a new band they were working on. In 2001 Chris sent me The Hunches first demo and, eventually, I invited them to come to The Distillery and record an album. The album they recorded was way more harsh and abrasive than the demo they'd sent. This pleased me very much. The first time I saw them play live I totally fell in love. They blew me away. I knew I'd totally scored.
You'd have to ask Chris or one of the other band members why they decided to end the band. I was disappointed by this development too. At least they never did a bad record. If anything, their last album was their strongest, which is a tough trick for a band to pull off.
Coincidentally, I just got a couple of demos from Hart's new band this week that are really incredible. Very melodic.
TB: How come you didn't end up releasing the second Human Eye LP after doing the first and the Clone Defects second?
LH: I had originally thought for sure I'd be doing the second Human Eye album. I made a deal with Tim to do their first album before the band even existed. After their first US tour Tim said his drummer was moving out of state and that the only way they'd be able to continue touring is with a lot of tour support and that he was going to try and get the second album released by a larger label. This took me by surprise but I certainly wasn't going to try and stand in his way. He had voiced his disappointment that it seemed as though their tour didn't receive the same attention as the Clone Defects had after the release of "Shapes Of Venus". I told him that I thought this was due to the fact that they were a brand new band and also their music was a bit more challenging and less direct than the Clone Defects but, I suspect, he thought it was due to me somehow not giving them the attention I'd given the Clone Defects, which wasn't the case. At any rate, I know he shopped the second Human Eye album to labels like Sub Pop and Ecstatic Peace without any luck. He eventually came back to me and asked if I was interested in doing it, but he said he had to have it out in time for a tour they were doing and, at that time, I already had a bunch of releases scheduled and couldn't do it. Tim recently sent me a bunch of new material by Timmy's Organism that is some of the best stuff he's ever done. Hopefully I'll be working with him again sometime soon. I definitely love his music and I think he's an awesome guy.
TB: The Piranhas are always a popular TB topic....what do you think of what those guys have been doing post-Piranhas? I thought Druid Perfume would be a perfect ITR band, but that hasn't happened yet...
LH: I fucking loved this band. I drove them on their West Coast tour just so I could see them a bunch. I really like Druid Perfume so there's a good chance I'll do something with them at some point. Right now my release schedule is so full I can't even start thinking about another new project but, I'd definitely be into working with these guys again.
TB: So what does the future hold for the label?
LH: As far as upcoming stuff on ITR, I'm about to release a bunch of things. October and November will see the release of new albums by The Fresh & Onlys, Tyvek, Demon's Claws, Cheap Time and the Parting Gifts (a new Greg Cartwright band). That pretty much finishes up 2010 for me. On tap for 2011 is a new Dirtbombs album titled "Party Store" that is all cover versions of Detroit techno songs. It'll be released as a triple 12" on vinyl. It's very different from their other albums. There will be a new Davila 666 album titled "Tan Bajo" coming after that. Also out early in the year will be the new UV Race album, "Homo", which is incredible. The Spits are working on a new album that will be out in the Spring - I'll be releasing a 7" EP prior to that. Thee Oh Sees are working on a new album that will probably be a Spring release as well. I'll be doing a 12" EP with Hart Gledhill from The Hunches new band at some point. Also in 2011 I'll (finally) be getting some of my long promised reissues out. The first of these will be a Homosexuals double album and a remastered re-release of The Consumers "All My Friends Are Dead". Hopefully the Urinals and 100 Flowers will follow sooner than later.
In the Red Records on the web here and here.
Catch Larry's internet radio show here.
Pic of Penny provided by Larry.
Interview by Rich K., Summer 2010.
To read other TB interviews, go here.
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